EddieJoe's Journal

well she called me, about 3 hours later, anyway she said she was at sams club and ten going to a friends house and the conversation ended there, I dunno if she called me out responsibility or because shes interested, more importantly i dunno if i should call her tomorrow

ooh.. that first conversation *grin* erm.. can you take constructive criticism? let me know.

It's good that she called you back. We're not mind readers, and it's easy to read too much into things. What I do know is that it's a good quality when a girl sticks to her word.

The 1st phone call was average. Girls have that same conversation with 100's if not 1000's of guys. Think of how you can maintain a stronger frame, and how you can capture her emotions.

..ok.. I'm running 20min late to meets some girls.. we'll chat more about this, and although I think that running "phone game" is fighting an uphill battle if she isn't already feeling compelled to see you again.. there are certainly some very specific things you can be doing!

Great to see you keeping this journal!

Criticismis what I’m here for! I will take the advice to heart. It's a great help. Ireally appreciate it. I am committed to improving this part of my life. Thingsare going well with everything else in y life but this, and it drives me crazy.I feel there’s a huge gap between the life I live and the life I want to live.The most frustrating part is that I know it’s all in my head.  I’ve read your articles and they are amazing.Thanks for everything.

Well today I got and got online, and the girl got online so we talked a little bit. Turns out she's going to the library to study and i got some work to do, so we're meeting up. Hope it goes well.

Well this is stupid. Today we spent the whole day at the library. At the same table, exchanging looks and making small talk (as much as it's allowed in a library). Around 8:30 she gets ready to leave and we say our good byes. At ( I'm done and call her as I come out, "I'm beat, I'm gonna go eat" "well you weren't doing much work anyway (teasing)" "Do you have plans for tonight?" "I'm going to the movies with a friend (male friend, this was in spanish so she said amigo, which determines gender)" "Cool, have fun. Don't forget your pepper spray" "Jeje, obviously" And we hung up. I'm not pissed per se, but I think I may have dropped the ball here. I had to know she had plans, I mean it's saturday and she's hot as fuck. Also I kind of asked her out, so i can't call her and ask her out tomorrow. Well that's that. I'll probably stay in today.

Ok.. the phone call..
If it's a girls voice always assume it's her, and stop asking if "so and so is there" as that is low value behaviour. I always assume it's the girl I'm calling who answers, and I also assume she knows who I am without me having to tell her. If she asks who is this, then I bust on her.. like, "OMG how many guys do you give your number out to." EVERYTIME she's like, "oh hi.. is this Justin?"
The phone conversation you had was boring and very average. If she was attracted to you when you originally met in person, then it is possible to lose attraction here on the phone call, and be placed into the "friend" or the "no sex" category. If she is desirable then from my experience guys are calling and texting her every day.. all day long.. until 4am! Many of those guys she will be more attracted to, and others she won't remember.
Ideally she should be attracted to you, intrigue, have a certain level of connection, and feel compelled to see you again.. from that very first meeting! Otherwise you are competing against this phone dynamic.
Either way.. it's important to own the frame when you call.. often times you will notice that she just seems a little off on the phone, compared to when you met her. The tone of her voice won't be very excited to hear from you.. she will act like she doesn't know who you are initially.. she will make an excuse to quickly brush you off the phone. If you comply with her questions, and are lead by her emotional state, and say ok like a good boy, and hang up the phone.. THEN you are categorised as being a guy she is not attracted to.
Harsh I know, and perhaps an unfair judgement. Think about it this way though.. we are talking about more attractive women, who are pursued constantly by a whole range of men. She has been conditioned to perceive herself as higher value, and more important than most of those men.. Is it perception or reality if that's how she's treated? She can't have long boring conversations with every needy guy out there who finds her attractive. Therefore, she develops ways of brushing guys off (even on the phone), and other ways of managing her time, and screening out potentially clingy and less sexually confident men.
Knowing this, it is best to start the phone conversation as if she instantly knows who you are.. be confident (not asking) and talk as if you have known each other a long time. Talk as if there is sexual chemistry between you. Guy's make the mistake of talking as if they are talking to a friend or another guy.. where there is NO sexual tension. Think about that. Think for a moment if someone else was listening only to your side of the phone conversation, who would they think you were talking to? Base that answer on their perception of your tone of voice, the monosyllable responses, the brief conversation, and the overall emotional tone.
Bust on her (sexually tease her) early on.. remind her of why she might have found you attractive. You control the frame.. perhaps start off by saying "hey I can't talk long as I'm getting ready to go rock climbing.. blah blah.." Talk as if you would in person, so that her emotions are engaged.. "I was just pulling dead leaves off my bamboo plant, and for some reason that reminded me to call you.. then tell her something funny."
When I call a girl up half the time it's a brief call just.. where it's fun.. and I have no intention of trying to get her to meet me. My intent is simply to be categorised as a "yes" and leave her wanting more.
Through every interaction you have with a girl, whether on the phone, through email, IM, or in person. She is constantly evaluating you in some way.. thoughts, beliefs, ideas are being formed about you in her mind. She will test, and screen for the traits that turn her on.. that show her you are confident, and won't be a clingy "nice guy." She often won't even realise she is screening like that.
Hope that gives you some insight into how you can come across differently on the phone, such that it improves your chances of seeing her again, and that her anticipation will be that it will be as more than friends.
Now to the Library..
You sat across exchanging glances and small talk... ALL DAY! Then after ALL DAY you give her ONE tease. Ok.. it's great that you called, and got to spend time with her again.. props for doing that. I just want to make sure that when you get the opportunity to spend a day with a girl from now.. that you are making out by the end of it, and that it is sexually charged.
Library is probably a bad place as it's like being in the cinema.. you can't really get to know each other. Yes, you could share a conspiracy, and role play, and god knows I would be pushing her up against books down some aisle and making out with her, or MORE! But that does require some confidence, and some experience with how to turn a girl on, etc.
Generally though you sat there as a nice guy "friend" that gave her company, and validation. Then she goes off with another guy that night. That guy is most likely not being the friend when around her.
When with a girl it's difficult to get into sexually charged comfort from across a table. Be it in a restaurant, bar, coffee shop, or at the library. Sitting next to each other is virtually always better. Then you can escalate kino.. then you can lower your tone of voice, and be more sexual.. then you can lean over and whisper in her ear.. you can have a reason to smell her neck, and excite her sexually.
A girl may be physically attracted to you, and like you, but then lose sexual interest if you are just too nice, and there is no sexual element. I'm not saying be mean or not nice.. you can be confident, firm, sexual, and maintain a strong frame while being nice. Too nice is always catering to her, asking, being humble, supplicating, and faking kindness. Faking kindness is wanting to do things for her out of the goodness of your heart.. when really you are being overly kind because you want to fuck her.
For example if she wanted to go to the library with me I might say, "haha nice erm I'm not ur study partner honey.. but if you are looking for some excitement when ur done.. I might be available." That could come across as mean, which would be WRONG. Based upon the context of the conversation, the tone of voice, additional sexual teasing and so on, then it could come across as being confident, high value, intriguing, and basically would convey all the right things about you that she would find attractive.
Things that you are doing really well.. you are opening, and talking to girl. You are certainly getting enough interest or comfort in order to see them again. You seem to have a good social circle where people like you, and attractive girls are there.
The area where I think you can most improve is in having a stronger frame, and steering things to where there is sexual tension between you. Sexual tension doesn't just happen. It happens because of what is said, the non-verbal communication, the touching, the images, thoughts, beliefs, and anticipation that is stirred up in her mind.
Please let me know if this makes sense? Do you think this describes your situation accurately? If so, be excited about how your interactions can be better and better. It can take some time on many "dates" with many women.. to fully understand this, and to be coming across in exactly the right way.. stick with it!

You are absolutely right, I can see that now. By being just avaliable to her and there, Imight just slip into the friend zone, where she doesn't see as a suitor but just as a guy who's there for her when she needs it. I'm reading and re reading your post to really get it down and make it part of my behaviour. I really appreciate your input.

Afet reading one of JDog's posts about online dating i decided to give the matchbook method a try, did it lat night. Sent out 54 messsages, got back 4 replies so far. I sent the messages in english so that eliminates a good ammount of the girls right away. And here's the thing, I've read The Game, Magic Bullets and most of Matchbook, I'm not sure if anyone has considered if this works on latin women. Puertorican women are harder and like to play "puesto" or maybe it's just me, I'm sticking to this and see if it works or not.

Officially done with library girl, this transpired thru MSN today.

1/19/2009  6:00:46 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  hey, i called you, no vi tu mensaje de ayer hasta que llegue a casa, estabas en shannans?
1/19/2009  6:00:56 PM  *GiSeLle  Eduardo Joel  si
1/19/2009  6:01:04 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  diablo y no saludas
1/19/2009  6:01:12 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  hasta en persona me estas pichando
1/19/2009  6:02:30 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  me tienes mas depreciado que el Dow Jones
1/19/2009  6:02:38 PM  *GiSeLle  Eduardo Joel  jaja q bobo
1/19/2009  6:02:46 PM  *GiSeLle  Eduardo Joel  pense q habias visto el text
1/19/2009  6:03:18 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  no chica es que lo tenia en silent
1/19/2009  6:03:21 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  yo no picheo
1/19/2009  6:03:24 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  yo no soy tu
1/19/2009  6:03:58 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  :P
1/19/2009  6:04:32 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  im very straight up and honest
1/19/2009  6:04:36 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  probably too honest
1/19/2009  6:07:28 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  i wanted to tell you something but i forgot what it was
1/19/2009  6:09:46 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  you know
1/19/2009  6:10:01 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  honestly, i feel pressured around you
1/19/2009  6:11:01 PM  *GiSeLle  Eduardo Joel  en q sentido no entiendo
1/19/2009  6:11:17 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  es como que
1/19/2009  6:11:29 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  we dont know each other
1/19/2009  6:11:41 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  antes de conocerte
1/19/2009  6:11:46 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  i already knew about you
1/19/2009  6:12:04 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  porque tu eres amiga de nydia, nydia es jeva de paly, y paly es mi mejor amigo
1/19/2009  6:12:27 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  siento como es un whole thing, and we dont even know each other
1/19/2009  6:12:54 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  does this make sense to you
1/19/2009  6:13:47 PM  *GiSeLle  Eduardo Joel  q tiene q ver eso cn sentir pressure.
1/19/2009  6:14:05 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  pues que si hgo algo estupido con relacion a ti
1/19/2009  6:14:17 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  im going to hear about it
1/19/2009  6:15:17 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  and i don't second guess myself ever,  
1/19/2009  6:15:38 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  thats why i feel like you don't know me at all
1/19/2009  6:16:38 PM  *GiSeLle  Eduardo Joel  no entiendo cual es el punto de esto
1/19/2009  6:16:47 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  forget it
1/19/2009  6:16:50 PM  *GiSeLle  Eduardo Joel  ni le habia dado pensamiento tampoco
1/19/2009  6:17:21 PM  *GiSeLle  Eduardo Joel  cmo dijiste eres el amigo de palomo q esta saliendo cn mi amiga y ps podemos ser amigos por eso y ya
1/19/2009  6:19:59 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  yeah, im overthinking it, must be the ocd
1/19/2009  6:24:54 PM  *GiSeLle  Eduardo Joel  voy a leer cardio., hablamos
1/19/2009  6:25:00 PM  Eduardo Joel  *GiSeLle  adios

I know it's half in spanish, but the jist of it is that there was never anything going on there. She just wants to be a friend. Im feeling miserable about it but also free. I feel like I can move on

oh.. it's library girl.. so therefore it's not a new encounter using the matchbook method, with a completely new girl... when I read it.. for some reason I combined the last two posts you wrote.

Yes.. I could tell that the library girl had already made her decision about you. That's just part of the learning process. BUT!.. hanging out with her as a friend can definitely will help your social value, and pre-selection.

It's kind of crazy how she acts, there's just too many people involved, all her friends wants us to get together. My friend too, but it's too much pressure. I felt like I really fucked it up hardcore today but she told her friends she just wants me to be her friend first. This is a relationship type of girl and i'm not sure if that's what I want. Anyway my birthday's on Friday I'm doing a White Party at my house, a little bit of sushi, parillada, sangria, grey goose, moet, green label everything very cool. I got some girls invited some confirmed. library girl is comming I'm not sure how that would turn out. If she brings her "friend" then i'll know i'm screwed. I'll try not to make the night about her but about me. I was trying to get a myspace girl to come but I think It would be almost imposible on such short notice. Any food or drink that could be sugested would really help.

So Im too new here to be offering advice...so Im sure youll get proper advice from someone more experienced with technique terms etc...but Id like to throw out my take....and please someone correct me if I am mistaken...
"I got some girls invited some confirmed. library girl is comming I'mnot sure how that would turn out."
Phone calls STRIKE
Library STRIKE
Text STRIKE
The thing that stood out to me...your texting ratio...she gives you 1 line per 4 you type roughly. Youre chasing her hard even while shes evacuating.
Inviting her to your party is a good idea as long as she is a friendly.
Dismissing her sexually and treating her as a platonic friend could give you an ally with other women she knows.
It only stands to risk your chances with her.
Its your party....shes just another guest.
"If she brings her "friend"(amigo?) then i'llknow i'm screwed. I'll try not to make the night about her but aboutme."
Even if she showed up alone...focusing on the new amigas instead...and having their focus on you....THE HOST of the PARTY...only stands to raise your chances with her or without
" I was trying to get a myspace girl to come but I think It would be almost imposible on such short notice. Any food or drink that could besugested would really help."
As for food and drink to get someone off myspace and into real life...thats a potion I dont know....but Im going to throw this out...
getting into a sold out concert in 3 days time is difficult.
getting a table with no notice can be difficult.
and perhaps there could be some difficulty in getting your myspace girl to show.....
Unless she isnt in the same state.... it only becomes an impossibility when you say "I think It would be almost imposible on such short notice."

As a side note: I find when entertaining playing host to the house rather then the ladies makes a better affair. Its a situation where you are by dominion the ALPHA.....thats demonstrated social value you can deposit in the bank...if you work it correctly

Well she's not comming to the party, so that's that. I found out thru a friend of a friend.
I didn't I would feel this bad about this. i'm fucked up here.

It's called oneitis! Look it most likely wouldn't have worked in your favour had she been there. The best thing you can do with her is to 100% treat her like a platonic friend, and don't make special time for her.. don't be a study buddy, and don't be a puppy dog when she needs validation or company.

At this point if you do anything that reinforces her perception of you being into her, or neediness, or anything, then it will only push her away. There is a low chance of getting this girl, and it's actually far easier to meet someone new. But I have also been there and I know hearing that doesn't make you feel any better.

Hang out with other girls, and have fun. When you speak with library girl, or text her  or if she hears about you through a friend.. then you are always having fun, and hanging out with other girls. BUT if you try to hard to convey that then you will have the opposite effect, as she will perceive that you are trying to make her jealous.

OH.. and good point by mybodyofart about the IM chat.. It's a good rule of thumb generally to give her the same level of attention that she gives you. Similar for email, phone, etc.

Thanks for your words, your attention, your wisdom. I got too emotionally invested in this girl, now i realize that. I need to soldier on to other women.

I think I beat my approach anxiety. Last night It took a ton of pills and a bottle of Bacardi, and when I woke up this morning it was like  "well i guess i gotta keep on living". Just opened on a girl at the university and another in the library.

This post brings back some harsh feelings for me, I would meet a girl and be totally head over heals over her. Not even knowing anything about her, Just her looks make you go crazy, and you think she is the perfect girl for me.

Then she puts you into friend zone, and you know it and there is nothing you can do about it. Then you obsess about getting her back, and no matter what you do, you can't get her attraction back.

Thanks for the Phone game input JDog, I have always made the same exact mistakes as eddie. It sucks being the girls little bitch.

Eddie, What opener did you use for the Matchbook method?

I don't think that method would work for me, unless I lie on my profile about my age. But I could be wrong